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Post by cvxn on Feb 12, 2014 23:43:15 GMT
So we seem to have royally pissed LuckyShirt off today with our complaining, (see today's chat log from about 12:45 pm) and now I don't know if HE'S ever coming back, let alone M.
Maybe it's time to talk about officially designating Kaylen as our go-between, since she seems to be the only one who can get through to him. LS clearly loves Kaylen, as we all do, but on the opposite side, I am legitimately afraid some of us have just pissed him off to the point where he doesn't want to talk to us anymore, and I don't like beating my head against brick walls (despite what my months in the FTS chatroom may have led you all to believe.) Having an official spokesperson might help eliminate some of the hurt feelings being experienced (by people like me) when he doesn't reply, or at least help him become aware of why those of us he doesn't communicate with are feeling excluded and depressed... HENCE THE COMPLAINING!
Also, it seemed as though when he & Kaylen were chatting alone there the other day, he was ready & eager to just tell her the solution, without any of us being around. He kept asking her if she wanted to quit. It felt weird for him to lay it all at her feet like that, and I'm glad she didn't take the bait until we officially agree that she is our spokesperson.
Everyone? Care to weigh in on thoughts about this? (I don't mean for this post to make you uncomfortable, Kaylen. We are just aware that he has been communicating with you exclusively for some time now and may as well formalize that to serve us to our advantage in solving. REPEAT: WE LOVE YOU, KAYLEN!)
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Post by jedpeter on Feb 13, 2014 0:29:49 GMT
Absolutely not.
1. I just don't think that he's going to get in a pissing match with his story and it's telling hanging in the balance. Whether he was truly mad or not about some grousing is sort of moot. He cares too much to have the story told, has put in too much time and effort, is too invested in it to withhold it out of what? petty spite by responding with "punishment?" No. None of his personas come across like that from what we seem to have seen (except maybe toward cvxn who does seem to be ignored).
2. No spokesperson should be the only route to and from LS/M in this situation. Think about how differently many things can be interpreted based on your age, sex, life experience, personal biases. Look at how differently you "hear" things whether you were there in real time in chat versus reading later. Seeing a flurry of messages fly with your eye doing the "timestamping" so you can see where thoughts were interrupted and know better who was responding to what versus trying to decipher day old logs with their absolute (and therefore infallible right?) timestamps. You think we're stuck now? Put all the responsibility of interpreting nuance and relaying an impression of things on one person (any person, this is not a dig at Kaylen at all. I wouldn't want the job) and we will most certainly be screwed at some point by that person's individual interpretation of what a random DM or otherwise highly individualized, transitory ephemera of the moment meant rather than what LS/M intended.
3. LS likes Kaylen. Sure. But engaging with her either within the context of relaying FTS to us, or at other times just shooting the breeze as LS or other times unofficially as a hybrid because she pushes some button doesn't mean that he even *wants* his story told through her. At least it doesn't have to be interpreted that way. He's got several competing interests here. Be LS. Be M. There's overlap that he seems to be unable to avoid, yeah. But I don't think the actions of one should be interpreted as a mandate for the other. One or the other persona has responded to each of us at various stages (again, except for maybe LS-cvxn but I'm sure we could review the logs and find some M-cvxn interaction). I don't think anyone needs necessarily either feel favored or accuse LS of favoritism. We're all human, we enjoy different things. And perhaps he enjoys something *more* about Kaylen than some others - her approach, her humor, hell, her furriness, who knows. But I don't think that outward signs of him enjoying that relationship should be taken as anything other than simple enjoyment. Until and unless LS says he's elected a spokesperson, I for one would never think to push for one no matter who it was - Kaylen, you cvxn, or even me. I feel it would be detrimental to the development of the game/story. If he does, well then, I'd see how it panned out, but I'm fairly sure that though I have had little to contribute thus far, I would have enough trepidation about the quality going forward that it would definitely alter (I'd have to admit that it'd be unknown if for better or worse as a hypothetical) my enjoyment.
Corollary to 3) As an example of the variety of interpretation, I read the same log as you and I did not see LS's statement of saying that maybe she should quit and that he would as him being on the verge of revealing some truth if she admitted defeat. She was smart enough to know that she WASN'T in fact speaking for everyone so couldn't make that conclusive statement for others. Also, I just saw it as him affecting the "random ignorant (as in lacking in knowledge, not 'stupid') guy" stumbling on all this FTS stuff happening on the chat with a whiff of "i've got insider knowledge I'd love to lead you to but can't force you to drink" as well. Maybe even just playing a tempting voice to simply test her resolve. I dunno. I just didn't see it the way you did, as a dangling of the possibility of the answers if she'd only admit defeat. Not at all. And that's what's great about this whole thing. We see clues and poems and pictures and even the very same text statements made in real time differently. We DON'T rely on any one person's interpretation (Except LS's) of all this. It's the way that it's supposed to work.
Corollary to Corollary to 3) If LS HAD told her the solution, it would not at all have been a private thing or even intended to be so. They both know as well as you and I that the logs are permanent and available to all, unless they somehow got me in on the action before anyone else saw them.
4) Think of the logistics. You'd have to have unanimous agreement of what Kaylen could or couldn't say/do otherwise you'd "ruin" the game for any singular dissenter. And quite possibly for the spokesperson since she'd only be acting as a puppet for the group and not her own independent agent.
I honestly do not understand the apparent stonewall you seem to have faced cvxn. That is for you and LS to eventually address and solve, or not. Not me.
Your feelings on the matter are absolutely valid. I am not intending to belittle that aspect of your post. Please accept my apologies if anything in *my* post does not come across as I intend it - to merely stand vehemently opposed to the idea of a singular conduit or spokesperson for the group, whoever that person might be. LS/M is the spokesperson for this story.
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Post by exicice on Feb 13, 2014 0:58:57 GMT
ah, i don't have time to read all of this right now, but i'm looking forward to it. i can see you gave a very thoughtful response, jed, and i appreciate that. it seems as though the dust is still settling from the last 24 hours, and though i'm kinda confused and not sure what to think/feel about the sequence of events, and who is feeling what (and why), i definitely don't want this to put up any walls between any of us, including luckyshirt. if indeed he is feeling very disrespected by me, i hope i can clean it up with him and make my actual feelings/thoughts on this clear to him.
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Post by cvxn on Feb 13, 2014 1:19:07 GMT
Thanks for this thoughtful reply, jedpeter. I wasn't saying she should be spokesperson for the story... I meant for us when trying to talk to LuckyShirt. (M actually replies to me, when he's not wherever he is now). LS doesn't answer anything I've sent to him that wasn't said in the chatroom, and that is a growing topic of concern as it starts to seem more like it must be purposeful. I wonder if I have done something that has made me persona non grata, and I like to shake the tree, but it has been getting me nowhere in my communications with this person for a dispiriting amount of time. I don't know how to fix it, and this was essentially me saying FINE THEN, ONLY TALK TO ONE PERSON, SEE IF I CARE. Yep, a master communicator I am. But I don't like to be where I'm not wanted... and I feel wanted among all of you, which is the issue. I've always assumed he'd figure out that all this would take just a few polite words to resolve (seriously, just say HI for fuck's sake, I don't need the fucking Potsdam Agreement), but if he doesn't or doesn't care and he's not dealing with me on purpose, I just gotta quit whining, suck it up and realize that not everybody is going to be agog in the face of the CVXN charm offensive (which the occasional person does find just plain "offensive.") Anyway, I'm not saying we need the poll, but I still think we needed to talk about this. Maybe exicice's idea of setting up occasional chatroom meeting times that fit LS's schedule would be beneficial?
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Post by Kaylen Aldanae on Feb 13, 2014 5:45:02 GMT
Eh?
Wow, I'm very confused.
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Post by Kaylen Aldanae on Feb 13, 2014 5:54:54 GMT
Okay, so now that I've actually read what's going on, I'm still a bit unsure of what I missed. I saw LS popped in today and sounded upset over the log from before he came on last night. I don't know why I got him to get onto the IRC chat. I was surprised too. But I dunno about being a spokesperson between LS and everyone else. If he wanted that, he would have just talked to me over twitter instead of making the effort to get in the chatroom to talk, I would think.
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Post by jedpeter on Feb 13, 2014 9:02:53 GMT
If he wanted that, he would have just talked to me over twitter instead of making the effort to get in the chatroom to talk, I would think. Exactly.
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Post by exicice on Feb 13, 2014 9:27:36 GMT
first off, on my end, i have no issue taking full responsibility for pissing him off. i don't think anyone else needs to get drug into that mess, if it's even a mess at all. i'm the one who wrote the rant, and regardless if others felt/feel similar about any of those things, i'm the one that posted it. the fact that my "rants" were a regular thing in the log, for people's entertainment to read later (and my way of saying "i'm still around"), is a side issue - what he read upset/offended him (as far as i can tell), and i wrote what he read. as regular readers of my rants probably realize (yay Rs), i didn't mean to get into any pissing match, didn't mean any offense to anyone involved in fts, and respect what luckyshirt has done with this project. i do, however, totally understand that reading that part of that rant could feel/look/seem pretty crappy.
second, i agree that luckyshirt seems to be communicating solely with kaylen lately, but i don't think any of us have any idea why. i will agree that we all love kaylen, and us realizing that/calling it out is not meant as offense or anything. it could just be coincidence. yet, we don't know what luckyshirt's plan is. only he does, as he rightly pointed out in his brief rebuttal to (part of) my rant (the other part was high praise to us and him, i'd like to remind myself and us all and him). maybe the "ignoring" of others is part of his plan? maybe there is supposed to be a delegated communicator? i have no idea. but, it's a possibility, for all i know. i do agree with jed, though, that it would not make much sense nor would really work well if we did have a single person to send/relay all correspondence. so even if it seems like that might be the direction we SHOULD go in, i don't like the idea that direction at all. i don't think any of us really do. but, what if it's "meant" to be that way?
but overall, don't start sentences with the word but. but besides that, i think jed has excellent points throughout his whole post. (thanks again for that thoughtful and logical response.) none of us want a spokesperson, and no one wants any feelings hurt, and we really don't know why cvxn hasn't gotten a reply about the medallions or anything else, but some things do seem like they may be more than a strange coincidence. might be something to look at. might be intentional - for what reason, we have no idea. then again, might not. kaylen has a point that he would have kept it private instead of coming to the room if he did want it to be that way. why he received/responded to/acted upon that one message from kaylen at that exact time versus anything anyone else sent on tumblr/the message board/chat logs/whatever else any of us have used, we can only speculate.
third, i'm still down for trying to see what times ls is available, and setting up a weekly/bimonthly/monthly/whatever chat session. i could be being overly sensitive and blowing it out of proportion, but i don't think i should be the one to ask him about it right now considering how he seemed to react to my most recent rant. (again, i'm not butthurt about it or complaining - i said it and he saw it. i just assume he doesn't really want to be my buddy right now, and feels i'm really upset about him and the rest of us. but i could be wrong.)
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Post by jedpeter on Feb 13, 2014 12:12:59 GMT
He's a busy guy with a life, like all of us, that includes many many many parts that are not FTS and are much more important (What?! I know!). So, "scheduling" his participation in it should best be left up to him, as it currently is. I guess we could vote on a convenient time for all of *us* to be available but that wouldn't obligate him in any way. Besides, I get a little upset (at no one in particular, not him or me) when I miss his random appearances. It'd be even more upsetting if I knew there was a scheduled meeting and it didn't agree with my schedule. At least I can chalk the current situation up to dumb luck in contrast to being the least popular vote on a scheduled time.
I also think he enjoys being able to play the "ignorant" one at times, at least partially. Whether that is for his benefit or others, we don't know. Perhaps he wishes he'd been able to separate those identities early on, perhaps not. But I do know he *doesn't* like the fact that his handle in kickstarter is M for both FTS stuff and Superfight. Yes, he has said as much, that's not an assumption. So, scheduling his appearance as Luckyshirt- NOT just another FTS player ™ or even Darin Ross-creator of Superfight and FTS™ would seem to eliminate all pretense (no matter how flimsy we literalists may already see it as) of keeping some boundaries there.
Why'd he respond to Kaylen? Serendipity? Coincidence? Who knows. Right place right time is more the direction I would lean for interpretation. Yes, DMs require following. So he follows Kaylen. He met her via FTS, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the lens for the interpretation of all future interactions between them. I'm glad they did interact because look at all the resultant discussion. Chaky was back! Pictures were posted! My wheels were turning more. I'm considering the medallion more seriously.
Maybe he wants "a special" and she is it. Maybe. We don't know. But there is division about even it's mere possibility. So, let's let LS/M/DR decide whether that is to happen. I don't like the idea of trying to force his hand even if that is the plan.
We can second guess ourselves into paralysis; we know this about ourselves as a group. Let's stick with M's advice to keep it simple and interpret things in the least complex way possible. LS had free time. Kaylen DM'd him. He showed up. We perhaps got helpful info. Conversations are happening.
The rest is interpretation and guesswork (which, yes, may be appropriate. It is the method of this madness, I know) and perhaps shouldn't be explored too much further until confirmation of its validity is offered. I'm not trying to discourage free thinking. I'm just taking this line to a possible conclusion and asking if it is helpful. Asking if it "fits." If it has the ring of pure truth to it. If we get an "Aha!" moment when we ask ourselves if we truly think M wants a "special" and Kaylen is it.
I still vote no though I have not officially placed that vote up top. I love that its current state of a 1 1 1 1 tie illustrates perfectly that this is an issue too divisive to be decided by a vote. Someone would lose in the end. And even if that's only a small percentage of us, it's too much.
EDIT: spelling, occasional grammar and a few clarifying words. I typed initially on a phone and quickly before a deadline.
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Post by cvxn on Feb 13, 2014 12:34:30 GMT
I just want to say you are all terrific. Because I don't want to weird out the people involved any more than they might already be, I thought about deleting the poll, because it's a moot point for me now, but I'm glad I kept it up, simply because I've benefited from the discussion that is taking place here (especially this most recent post of jedpeter's). And now, onward! Chin up, shoulders back, clear eyes, full heart, can't lose... right? EXCELSIOR! Edited to add: Was Chaky back? I didn't check the logs to see what was posted after I went to work, but I'll do so before I check in tomorrow.
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Post by exicice on Feb 13, 2014 19:09:56 GMT
good points on the the whole scheduled chats. honestly, i don't even know if i was the one who initially thought of it. cvxn's giving me credit, though! ha, so i'll take it, but i also don't really care one way or the other with it. i wouldn't mind "missing" scheduled chats, but it would suck to be the odd one out on a vote about it. i also don't think they're necessary and never pushed for it happen - don't think any of us did. so, i'm good with scratching that idea. i also love that our votes are 1-1-1-1. very telling and makes me smile. i think the whole idea for the pole is over and done, too, but also like the discussion that followed and i say at least leave the thread up, if not the votey part. dunno how that works anyway. damnit, cvxn! you're freggin clever, you.
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Post by cvxn on Feb 13, 2014 21:01:05 GMT
Locked the poll because it's just serving as a point of discussion now.
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Post by Kaylen Aldanae on Feb 13, 2014 21:23:50 GMT
I've locked the poll but kept the thread open for discussion. I guess I was beaten to locking it. To be honest, he doesn't actually follow me on twitter. He was the first one to DM me on there because I made a tweet worried about the arrival of my Superfight package. The DM thread has stayed open so I've just messaged him a few times. He doesn't usually respond, honestly. It's just me making jokes about being frustrated about the poem.
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